Gineipaedia:Translation
This page contains a catalogue of translation-related notes, questions, and issues related to Legend of Galactic Heroes. Note: Please restrict this page's use to translation-related matters only; policy issues can be discussed at Policy talk. Also, if you add a translation concern or comment, please sign your name with four tildes (~~~~). Terminology Starzones / star systems — note The most common term for star systems in English LOGH fan sources seems to be 'starzone'. This is also used a few times in the anime itself. This is probably obvious, but i've noticed that the Japanese subtitles correspond to the perspective that each system is being shown from. For the FPA perspective, it is common to use 'system' in the English subtitles. You can see this many times — for instance, 'Jafnhár System' in episode 015. In these cases, the Japanese subtitles show '星系' solar system. However, for the Imperial perspective, the series seems to switch between various German (or pseudo-German) translations and 'Starzone'. In all of these cases, the Japanese subtitles show '星域', lit. star zone. This seems to be a term that is not in common use outside of LOGH fandom, as far as i can tell from Googling. However, within LOGH fandom, it is used almost exclusively — even for instances like Jafnhár, where the series explicitly uses 星系, Japanese fan sources use 星域 instead. Given the above, i think i'm going to stick with 星域 — and therefore 'starzone' — for all star systems (and star-system battles) on the site. We should have 'system' redirect to the 'starzone' pages. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :Removed non-translation-related comments — see Policy talk. ♥ kine :The licensed material I have uses 星域. :If you are going just by the words and not look beyond you won't understand anything. The problem is not the application of the terms but the different use of them by the makers and the fans. The FPA uses star system because there are no territory overlapping administrations. Each and every planet=system is independent in terms of a federal system. In the Empire starzone equals an administrative sector something like a province ruled by a high noble. Almael 18:11, 7 September 2011 (UTC) ::I don't go 'just by the words', i go by the information i can find in the series media and the terminology used by Japanese fans. Whilst your claim may or may not represent the original intent, i've found no explicit basis in either of those for it. If you have a specific source that addresses it, i would be interested to see it, because it would obv justify changing a huge number of starzone references ♥ kine @ 07:58, 8 September 2011 (UTC) :::The anime and the story itself is the source. I doubt something simple as this is being addressed officially. Not even star trek did this until it was given up for Enterprise and following. :::*The name of the Free Planets Alliance: an alliance of independent planets in a system that has similarity to a federation. Prior to the Battle of Rantemario the member planets are given permission to surrender. The Alliance maps often use the planets name on their map rather than star system name, i.e. the Salvation army episodes gives Shampool, Neptise, Palmlend, Heinessen. This is because they are independent and so it doesn't matter whether you refer to the star or the important planet within. :::*Many of the Imperial systems or planets are named after the name of their nobles. For example the place reference to Geiersburg is said to be in the Freya starzone. If you look at the Imperial map you will see the separation into colored areas. Each one containing more than one star system. :::*All LoGH is about is the different governmental systems and the people. As I showed you this is not just a statement. Everything has been worked out in detail and modeled into the anime. You got to take all of this into account, too. :::Not just gathering information but also analysing, and hence varyfying is a skill of an encyclopedia editor. You can't rely everything on 'official books' either. Most things are the very basic source within the show. Almael 11:51, 8 September 2011 (UTC) File:Salvation_Army_Revolution_Briefing_Map.png|detailed FPA map File:Lippstadt_Escape_Briefing_Map.png|Imperial map File:Empire_Evacuation_Scheme_Area.png|detailed Imperial map ::::Just a note, the Alliance= system / Empire = starzone construction doesn't really work. In Episode 51, the caption for Vermilion says 'Starzone "Vermilion"'. Vympel 09:56, 9 September 2011 (UTC) :::::From which version? LD or DVD. I trust the LD version more since there are Kanjis. Almael 16:22, 9 September 2011 (UTC) ::::::Both are identical (from the LD rip and the QTS DVD rip):- http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9497/vermld.jpg / http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2750/vermdvd.jpg Vympel 04:51, 10 September 2011 (UTC) :::::::Very good. The question is of course why is it so? From experience I don't trust the writing/accuracy of any anime staff. In this case it could be both depending on how things are or what happened. In any case doubts will always remain. :::::::*This region of space is pretty much in the hands of the Empire. Rantemario, Gandharva etc. have already fallen. :::::::*Vermillion is not inhabited so any side can claim it on their map. :::::::So it depends on the viewpoint of the side that is shown from. However, it's more likely the anime staff or editor wasn't careful or even realized themselves. It's the same reason for star trek's messines. Well, I will eventually find all references from the original source anyway. It only will take very long. Almael 10:53, 10 September 2011 (UTC) Free Planets Alliance Officer Academy — issue The Free Planets Alliance Officer Academy article has recently been brought over from LOGH Wiki, and i'm concerned about the name translation. These are the facts: * The CA LaserDisc translation refers to it as the 'Free Planets Alliance Officer's Academy' (singular possessive). * The English signage on the gate to the building reads 'F.P.D.F Command Academy'. Presumably FPDF stands for Free Planets Defence Forces. * The narrator refers to it only as 士官学校 shikan gakkō — 'officers school' or 'academy'. * The Japanese Wikipedia uses '同盟軍士官学校': 同盟 alliance, 軍 forces, 士官 officer, 学校 school. This is also the term Yang uses (dōmei-gun shikan gakkō) when he introduces himself to Jessica. * Several other Japanese sources use '自由惑星同盟国防軍士官学校': 自由 free, 惑星 planets, 同盟 alliance, 国防軍 defence forces, 士官 officer, 学校 school. Unfortunately there were no name subtitles — as far as i can find — for this particular institution, thus the confusion. So which do we go with? The most formal and complete name (the last one) seems like the best choice, but i can't find any official sources that use it. Also, on an even more nit-picky note — assuming we continue the use of the term 'officer', exactly what form should it take? Officers, plural? Officers', plural possessive? Google and Wikipedia seem divided between 'officer school' and 'officers school'. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :The problem is one composed of administrative designation, official naming, and verbal use by people. Each and everyone of these categories use different name or designations. FPDF Command Academy is obviously an administrative use as it signifies that it belongs to the Command department of the armed forces. Hence, Command is responsible for officer training. 'Alliance forces officer school' is a popular term to signify the 'alliance' and 'officer'. Then 'FPADF officer school' is an official name use i.e. on documents. Almael 18:11, 7 September 2011 (UTC) Alpha Centauri — issue (resolved) I wanted to put in a Japanese name for Alpha Centauri Starzone, but i've had trouble determining what it should be. Wikipedia says 'ケンタウルス座アルファ星', but the way the narrator pronounces it in is something like 'アルファ・ケンタウル'. I could not find any LOGH-related results on Google for either one. :/ ♥ kine :Alpha Centauri is not a fictional star system. The Japanese name, Arufa Kentawaru, is just the Japanese pronuncation. The correct romanization is "Alpha Centuari." — Canary ::I did not have any trouble with the romanisation or the pronunciation used in the series, my concern was with the appropriate spelling. According to Wikipedia and Google Translate, the Japanese name for it is in fact 'ケンタウルス座アルファ星' kentaurusu-za arufa-boshi, which is not what the narrator guy called it — thus my confusion. ::'アルファ・ケンタウリ' alufa kentauri returns 51'700 results on Google, though, whilst Wikipedia's spelling only returns 29'000, so perhaps the former is the correct spelling. I'm going to use it for now. ♥ kine :::There's another issue at play here: the Alpha Centauri is part of the Proxima Starzone, as it the (unmentioned in-series) "Beta Centauri" starzone, what with it being a trinary star system and all. Earth / Earth Cult — issue Currently we refer to Earth and the Earth Cult by those respective names. However, i am unsure if this is correct. The Japanese dialogue and text uses the standard Japanese name for Earth, '地球' chikyū, exclusively. However, the English word 'Earth' rarely if ever appears. Instead, the name subtitles show 'Terra', the Earth Cult's banners read 'Terra', and when the Earth Cult aren't being referred to as such ('地球教団' chikyū kyōdan), they are called 'Terraists'. This leads me to believe that the preferred and intended English translation for '地球' may in fact be 'Terra', and that we should refer to the planet and the church as 'Terra' and the 'Terra Cult', respectively. We will need a consensus on this before taking any action, of course. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :I think we should take the same approach as we do with German (Terra being latin, after all). Basically, the "base" terminology we use should always be English. We can use whichever term interchangeably, but "Empire" will always be more correct than "Reich," etc., etc. I think renaming it to "Terra" would be a needless obfuscation. Canary 23:51, 17 May 2011 (UTC) ::Well, i don't think whether it's a needless obfuscation or not is a metric we should use (assuming it can be proven whether it's intended to be an 'official' name). If it was, it would raise all sorts of uncomfortable questions for us, like whether to accept the obfuscation of the numerous Japanese misspellings of real-world names that exist in the series. ::But anyway, i think the real core issue with 'Terra' is whether to consider it an immutable proper name (like 'Geiersburg' vs 'Vulture Mountain') or a common translatable term (like 'Reich' vs 'Empire'). ::That's a hard question to answer for now. On the one hand, there is the evidence i presented above, plus the fact that we never change any other planets' names. On the other hand, 'Terra' is never spoken aloud or spelt in katakana as far as i can find. So it could go either way. ::For the time being, i'll vote to just keep it the same. If we find it in an official source as katakana, i'd say that'd be the proof, but until we do there's probably no reason to worry about it ♥ kine @ 01:31, 18 May 2011 (UTC) :::This is so simple... The problem is: Earth is not the name of this planet. The Sun is not the name of our star. The Moon is not the name of our moon. In astronomy Terra is the name for Earth. Almael 18:11, 7 September 2011 (UTC) ::::Well it's easy for something to be simple when it's not based in reality. :/ ::::1. LOGH is a cartoon written by Japanese people that takes place 1500 years in the future; whatever English-speakers may or may not call things right now in the real world is of only peripheral concern. ::::2. The premise of your claims is false in the first place. Despite what science fiction might tell you, there are really not many actual astronomers currently and consistently using the Latin names for those bodies. The IAU (the organisation in charge of naming astronomical bodies) explicitly and universally refer to them in English as the Sun, the Earth, and the Moon. :::::Not that that alters my original argument, mind you ♥ kine @ 07:58, 8 September 2011 (UTC) :::::*LOGH is a cartoon written by Japanese people that takes place 1500 years in the future; whatever English-speakers may or may not call things right now in the real world is of only peripheral concern. Hence, your english naming claim is void. Besides right now there is no reason to differentiate yet as we are still Earth-bound. But ask any of them for an alternative name and see for yourself. :::::*In a distant future where every star will be called a sun by the local people the Earth-bound naming convention of today has no meaning. :::::*All planets, asteroids have been named after roman gods or myths. Again your english claim is void. :::::*This is not about your opinion, honey. This is about dry facts and or theory at worse. However, even if I disagree with what you have to say I will fight to the death to protect your right to say it. :) :::::Btw. I did more than just these two edits, the whole page actually. Almael 11:50, 8 September 2011 (UTC) ::::::Oy. ::::::*Not sure what English naming claim you mean. I didn't make a claim regarding the English name, i'm purely concerned about what the intent of the author was in providing the Romanised name for it. I personally think the intent is 'Terra', so we probably agree. Just not for the same reasons, apparently ::::::*I can't disagree that they probably won't call our star 'the Sun' in the distant future. But this translation point's not about the Sun, it's about Earth. I only mentioned the other ones 'cause you did. ::::::*In the English language, planets are generally named after gods or myths, yes. However, Earth is an exception. (1) Terra was not a god or myth, it was just a Latin word describing our world, and (2) the IAU explicitly address the fact that Earth is an exception to the rule. ::::::*Did you really just call me honey :/ ::::::I noticed you did more than those two edits, but i don't disagree with your argument for most of them so i just went for this one. I'm a bit busy lately so i will be hitting things on the site pretty sporadically, hopefully that will be OK ♥ kine @ 01:49, 9 September 2011 (UTC) Episode titles Please give the episode number for reference, as discussing title name make it useless to use it as reference. Almael 19:18, 7 September 2011 (UTC) The Knights of the Rose (薔薇の騎士) — issue (resolved) If i recall correctly, this should actually be 'The Rosen-Ritter' or something to that effect. 'Knights of the Rose' is the literal meaning of the kanji used in the title, but i seem to remember 'Rosen-Ritter' being present in furigana at the end of the episode, which suggests that that is the actual title, and the kanji is meant to give context to Japanese viewers. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :It turns out i've misremembered this. There is no furigana in the episode title card in the LD, DVD, or Blu-ray release. It only shows '薔薇の騎士'. However, this is also the official Japanese name/spelling for 'Rosen Ritter' — it's not written in kana, which i hadn't realised. This somewhat butts up against our normal policy of not using German names as the canon names for things, but i guess in the case of the Rosen Ritter it's sort of unavoidable, isn't it? We can't start calling them 'Knights of the Rose' all the time. So i'm going to make the episode title match. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) Cool, Clear, Artificial Eyes (冷酷なる義眼) — issue The standard translation for this episode title sounds very nice, but it does not carry the same meaning as the original. The characters '冷酷' are normally translated to 'cold-hearted', 'ruthless', &c., which obviously has a very different (mostly negative) connotation in comparison to 'cool' and 'clear' (which i would say are generally positive attributes). A less common, but still relatively accurate, translation might be 'cold and cruel'. However, none of these sound as good as the standard translation. In some cases i would even say they are kind of nonsensical (you wouldn't describe inanimate objects as being 'cold-hearted'). I am having trouble deciding on what would be the best method of action. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :Icy. Almael 19:18, 7 September 2011 (UTC) New Trends (新たなる潮流) — question Is this right? It's definitely the gist, but is there a more direct translation? Some of the characters used are the same used in 'A New Hope' (the Star Wars film), so maybe it should be 'A New Trend' or 'A New Current' or something? ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :A New Tide. Almael 19:18, 7 September 2011 (UTC) The Yang Fleet Goes Out (ヤン艦隊出動) — note It's possible that 'The Yang Fleet Mobilises' or 'The Yang Fleet Is Dispatched' might be more precise, but 'goes out' has definitely been used (in English) in the context of fleet mobilisations in the past, and since the standard translation uses it, i suppose there is a benefit in continuing to do so ourselves. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :'Mobilizes' is a military term for creation as well as getting on the way. Normally the literature or press would use 'The Yang Fleet sets Sail' but The Yang Fleet sets out' is also common. Almael 19:18, 7 September 2011 (UTC) Bloodshed in Space (流血の宇宙) — question The characters used here are the ones for 'universe', if we are to translate literally, not 'space'. But are those characters used colloquially in Japanese to mean both things? Other possible translations are 'The Bleeding Universe' and 'Bloody Universe' ('Bloody Space' sounds bizarre). ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :The Empire would use 'cosmos'. ;) However, 'outer space' is the proper alternative english so it's 'Blood in Outer Space'. This is also an older scifi term. :D Almael 19:18, 7 September 2011 (UTC) The Fall of the Golden Tree (黄金樹は倒れた) — issue I had translated this literally based on the kanji, but i believe this is a case similar to 'Knights of the Rose' where furigana above the title spell out 'Goldenbaum'. Should probably be 'The Fall of Goldenbaum'. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :These are specific german word titles so use german words. Almael 19:18, 7 September 2011 (UTC) Farewell, Distant Memories (さらば、遠き日) — question I think the literal translation of '遠き日' would be 'distant days' — and this phrase would be understood in English, but i'm not sure if it's the best way to go? Something to think about. I definitely do not like 'Farewell, the Old Days'; it is perhaps an accurate translation but it just sounds silly. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :'Distant Memories' is good. The only other possible alternative would be simply 'Distant Past'. Almael 19:18, 7 September 2011 (UTC) Lost Things (失われたもの) — question From what i can tell this isn't an entirely inaccurate translation (in fact maybe it's the best possible, i don't know), but i have difficulty with the hiragana bits so i'm not sure. I would like to get a second opinion to see if a more literal rendering would be possible. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :Well, 'things' here refer to something important that is lost. Although, the English is correct it does not carry the importance. The trick here is to reverse it to emphasize it 'Things Lost'. Almael 19:18, 7 September 2011 (UTC) The Inquiry Committee (査問会) — question The standard translation here puts the focus specifically on the committee (i.e., the people running the inquiry — Negroponte, Oliveira, &c.), as opposed to the whole inquiry as an event. Is that correct? Google Translate gives us 'court of inquiry', which suggests it might not be. Maybe a more accurate and succinct translation for us would simply be 'The Inquiry'. Need second opinion. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :Google is wrong. It's a combination of inquiry and gathering, so the title is correct. The only alternative for committee would be 'Hearing' which does not fit in this case. A stronger word for inquiry would be 'Inquisition'. Almael 19:18, 7 September 2011 (UTC) War Without Weapons (武器なき戦い) — question This is another instance where i suspect that the translation is fine, but i have small doubts because of the characters. '戦い' is what we use for 'Battle of the Corridor' and 'Jessica's Battle' — is it OK to use 'war' here instead? Given how flexible English is, probably, but again i would like another opinion. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :War is an all encompassing word in english, while battle is down and dirty in terms of personal battle or struggles, which is what is being used. So 'fight' is a possible alternative. 'Unarmed Battle' or 'Unconventional War' or ... Almael 19:18, 7 September 2011 (UTC) Fortress vs Fortress (要塞対要塞) — note A note on why i use 'vs' instead of the standard 'Against': '対' is what we see in the titles of Godzilla films, which are traditionally translated as 'Godzilla vs ______'. I think it works just as well here. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) The Return (帰還) — note This has some possible alternative translations ('Repatriation' is used by someone), but i chose The Return. My assumption of course is that the title refers to Yang's return to Iserlohn. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) Determination and Ambition (決意と野心と) — question Someone (i forget) has this as 'WITH Determination and Ambition', which makes sense given the bit at the end there. But i don't know the hiragana stuff that well. Which is more accurate? ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :決意=Decision/Determination, 野心=Ambition/Treachery :) Almael 19:33, 7 September 2011 (UTC) The Abduction of the Young Emperor (幼帝誘拐) — question Possible alternatives for that last bit: 'Child Emperor', 'Child Kaiser', 'Young Kaiser'. What's best? ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :I think that 'Young Kaiser' is how the Central Anime fansub translates it, which seems to flow more naturally in a sentence. RedPoptarts 23:05, 3 May 2011 (UTC) ::I would say "Young Emperor. No need to use Kaiser unless that's what's stated in the anime: it feels silly to translated Japanese to German for an English wiki. Canary 01:01, 4 May 2011 (UTC) :::In the same logic it is silly for japanese to use foreign namings. lol 'Infant Kaiser' is the proper term. Almael 19:33, 7 September 2011 (UTC) A Departure (ひとつの旅立ち) — issue I don't like this translation, but i can't find a good-sounding alternative. I think the most literal translation would be something like 'A Departure of One', but this sounds odd in English. 'One Person's Journey' was another alternative, but the connotation in the original Japanese is clearly of ''setting off on the journey, not the journey itself. ♥ kine @ 13:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC) :Simply 'One's starting Journey' or 'One's Beginning'. Almael 19:33, 7 September 2011 (UTC)